Beyond Sexual Revolution

Published 60 years ago, the first Kinsey Report, titled "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male," shocked the general public for discussing subjects that had previously been taboo and for openly challenging conventional sexual beliefs of the day. Though Kinsey's methods have repeatedly been questioned by opponents, the report remains one of the largest studies ever conducted on human sexual behavior.

DW-WORLD.DE: The Kinsey Report launched the sexual revolution when it was published on Jan. 31, 1948. Now it's celebrating its 60th anniversary. How important was it to your career?

Erika Berger: Well, I was much too young to read it when it came out, but of course I have it on my shelf at home just like everyone today who's interested in sexuality. There are things in it, where you say, "Yes, that's exactly right." There's no reason not to do things that are a bit out of the ordinary and that may be incomprehensible to other people. And above all we should talk about sexuality. We shouldn't try to conceal things, and we should leave people with other sexual preferences and drives in peace.

It took several years for the Kinsey Report to be translated into German. Was Germany backwards in this regard?

As I began dealing with sexuality in front of the camera, it was a wasteland. There was director Oswalt Kolle who made a number of sex-education films in the 1960s. He was an educational pioneer, and I think it was only then that we in Germany realized that sex was something completely normal. In that respect I think Germany did lag behind America a bit.

The results of the Kinsey Report suggested that sexual practices traditionally dismissed as perverse were far more widespread than people thought. Is there such a thing as "normal sex?"

You'd have to ask yourself the question: What is normal sex for a given individual? And you could just as well ask: What is good or bad sex for that individual? Sex is the way I experience it and do it -- together with my partner. The concepts of normal and abnormal sex mean nothing to me. I think it's impertinent for someone today to say "What gays do, isn't normal." Who are they to say what's normal? I myself determine what's normal for me.

The Internet has opened up whole new possibilities for tracking people's sex preferences. What effect has that had on sexual research?

I think the Web is unbelievably important for sex research. First of all, it allows you to look things up things instantly. And it's very transparent. I no longer have to go somewhere and buy a book that I hardly dare to ask for because the title is so racy. Instead I just log on to the Web, click and I've got everything I need. And it's interesting that you can measure people's clicks and see whether they are interested in the missionary position, same-sex love or unusual sexual practices. Are they interested in sex toys or masturbation tips? That's very interesting.

Then public sexual morality often differs drastically from people's actual online sexual behavior?

Absolutely. You can read about things, click on them and inform yourself. You can even talk about and discuss them. But when people are confronted with their own desires, they sometimes lack the courage. Some don't want to overburden their partners; others simply don't know where to begin. To take a somewhat crass example: If I said, "How about some role playing or bondage tonight?" or "I'm into sadomasochism," I wouldn't know how my partner would react. And then it's too late. That's why, in practice, sex is often so boring.

Is it not ironic that the possibilities opened up by the anonymity of the Internet often get in the way of sexual communication?

Yes, it's suffered from that. Today I can choose a partner via the Internet -- I can virtually "invite" someone into my living room and talk to him via the computer screen. But, please, what good is that? It's totally one-dimensional. It's the same as if I look at pictures of naked women or men or sex practices on the screen. What good does it do me?

That sounds as if there's still a need for sexual education in the Internet age, a need to bring people together to talk about sex.

I think the attempt to bring people together is great. But it doesn't always work. Let's say I decide I want a man. So I go to some Web page and look for a guy I'd like to chat with. Then you start talking, and of course your conversations revolve around horizontal kinds of fun. But I still want to see the guy some time! I love chatting, and I'm very involved with the Internet. But I still think that you have to talk face-to-face at some point. I miss that. It's a kind of anonymity that I don't like very much.

You're 67, and your last book dealt with growing older and specifically with menopause. That's very topical because the average age is increasing in Germany and many other Western countries. Will it have an effect on our sex lives?

It creates a very important question: Is sex in old age a taboo or not? Personally I'd plead for treating it as something normal. Who says that you shouldn't have sex at the age of 60, 70 or 80? There's no age limit for sex -- or love, which I always stress is connected with sex. If a person is healthy, he can still have a very fulfilling sexual life. But one thing I found out from talking to people for my last book was that as they get older, sex becomes less important. It's only their second or third most important concern -- the top one is tenderness. Is there someone there who loves me and whom I can love back? It's a matter of trust, above all, and sexuality develops from it.

So there will be more attention paid to older people's sexuality?

Of course, because people are getting older, and -- thank God -- they're no longer stupid enough to try and conceal the fact that they're no longer doing the dirty deed. (laughs) Look at it this way -- everyone, no matter how old, has a baby inside that needs to be cuddled. When you enter puberty, it's great. And when you're in the prime of life, you've lost most of your inhibitions. But if you're a woman entering menopause, you have so many inhibitions. You don't dare take off your clothes. You're afraid that sex will hurt. You have so many things that can take away your desire for sexuality. You say, "Oh, I'm old." But you're not old. You're just entering a new phase of life. That's great. Why are you laughing?

No reason -- you just made ageing sound pleasant. One last -- frivolous -- question: You recorded a song in the 1990s called "Sex is Fun." When was the last time you listened to it?

(Laughs.) Oh God, I know exactly when it was. Six months ago. I was sitting around with some colleagues, chatting interactively, and they said, "Hey, we've found something really funny. It's your CD." We listened to it and laughed ourselves under the table. What do think about that? Pretty funny, huh?

I don't have any problem with that. I have no problem with getting older, or with saying that sex is fun, or with anything I've every done in my professional or personal life. I think it's great. It's part of life.

I wouldn't have minded making a record -- especially not with that title.

(Laughs) Too late. I got there first.