'Worth the effort'

At the Global Media Conference in Bonn, Deputy Foreign Minister Werner Hoyer spoke to Deutsche Welle about Germany's commitment to human rights.

DW: In Afghanistan, the Bundeswehr has the task of securing human rights and the democratization process. The situation is explosive - there has just been a new Taliban attack that injured German troops. Has the price we're paying for our commitment to human rights in Afghanistan become too high?

Werner Hoyer: The price is very high. When the Bundeswehr suffers losses, when people suffer damage - that is a very high price. But we have a mission to perform in Afghanistan: we must put Afghanistan in a position where it can provide for its own security and guarantee its citizens a secure future while observing human rights. That is a very long journey, but we have to watch out that, after these 10 years of making an effort in Afghanistan, it is not human rights of all things that falls by the wayside. So, the price is very high, but it is worth the effort.

In another conflict, in Libya, the government is much more cautious. It is not participating in NATO's military mission in the country. That led to a lot of criticism. How do you deal with that? With hindsight: was the decision right or wrong?

The government thoroughly considered its decision. We - the Chancellor's Office, the defense minister and the foreign minister - agreed that this mission wasn't really thought through concerning its end, so we still believe we made the right decision. But that doesn't mean the reverse is true, that we are neutral, that we don't care what happens there. Our allies, our friends have come to a different conclusion than we have and we wish them success. First and foremost, that means successfully safeguarding the civilian population, which is a priority in the Security Council resolution. Apart from that, I hope that at the end of the day, everyone involved will come to realize that Libya's future is unthinkable with Gadhafi.

All the same, many critics say that Germany has isolated itself internationally and that it has harmed its human rights mission. How does the Foreign Office deal with these accusations?

I believe we're being falsely accused. I don't think we need to be lectured about human rights, we do have a clean slate where that is concerned - in Libya, too, by the way. The history of German-Libyan relations didn't just start this January, those ties go back a long time. Germany has always taken action and stood up for human rights in its dealings with the Libyan government - at a time when Gadhafi was putting up his tent in other European capitals. So I think we should not misuse the domestic debate over what would have been the right decision, in order to paint the human rights issue in a more negative light than would be justified.

Often, the problem with human rights policies is that you're in an area of conflict between practical politics and the demands of doing justice to human rights. How do you deal with events like the recent one in China, where the artist Ai Weiwei has been arrested? How does the Foreign Ministry deal with that situation?

Indeed, that is a particularly difficult case because in Ai Weiwei's case, authorities were trying to make western human rights policies look downright foolish. So you have to be consistent and stick to your guns. But in general you're right, you're always caught between choosing an up-front, demonstrative human rights policies on the one hand or a policy on the other hand that aims for a concrete result in an individual case. That's a choice you have to make. It doesn't always make things easy but it is worthwhile abandoning the loud voice or the big headline if that means really helping an individual human rights case.

More of a diplomatic approach?

Yes, of course. We want to make headway in a concrete case rather than boosting our own feel-good-factor. You might feel better after you've put in a loud appearance. But you might not really have helped people in need. That is always a difficult choice - every single time.

In an era of globalization, cross-border human rights policies are becoming increasingly important. How do you rate the European Union's role? Does the EU have a clear strategy?

In fact it does. By securely anchoring the human rights issue via the EU's Charter of Basic Rights, we have, to a certain extent, taken on the function of a role model. And that means that, where human rights are concerned, you have to live by the basic rights you have written down in those documents. That's why it is important that internationally, the EU and its member states are credible in human rights questions. That also means they must be credible on the domestic scene, for instance by protecting basic freedoms like the freedom of the press and the freedom of opinion. That is always the litmus test for a union that has committed itself to such a noble goal.

Mr. Hoyer, for three days, participants will be discussing human rights, globalization and the media at the Global Media Forum here in Bonn. What kind of message do you expect from the conference?

I believe the human rights issue is particularly current at the moment because, as the globalization process increasingly gathers speed, there is the danger of human rights issues falling by the wayside. Because, unlike in past decades, when the enlightened, constitutional democracies were very successful economically, we now face a range of economic and political centers in the world that are doing quite well economically, and are playing an important role in globalization; but they show questionable developments on domestic freedom and human rights,. For that reason it is important to keep on addressing human rights issues when we talk to authoritarian regimes that are successful economically.

How do you see the the role of Deutsche Welle, which regards itself as the voice of human rights?

That is a major self-definition and I hope Deutsche Welle can do justice to its own standards. Let me just say that Deutsche Welle is Germany's media business card and so of course, in keeping with the government's recognition of the importance of press freedom, it is an instrument of German foreign policy. It is up to Deutsche Welle to express to the world the human rights orientation inherent in German politics and society. As far as I am concerned, Deutsche Welle does an excellent job.

Interview: Ralf Bosen / db
Editor: Michael Lawton